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Debrah

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27-Jul-09 01:18

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Sticker Shock: $23.7 Trillion Bailout?
July 21, 2009, ABC News

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Politics/story?id=8140184

"The total potential federal government support could reach up to $23.7 trillion," says Neil Barofsky, the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, in a report released today on the government's efforts to fix the financial system. "The potential financial commitment the American taxpayers could be responsible for is of a size and scope that isn't even imaginable," said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., ranking member on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

"If you spent a million dollars a day going back to the birth of Christ, that wouldn't even come close to just $1 trillion -- $23.7 trillion is a staggering figure."

The government has about 50 different programs to fight the current recession, including programs to bail out ailing banks and automakers, boost lending and beat back the housing crisis. So far they've cost taxpayers around $4 trillion. But Barofsky says if each federal agency spent the maximum potential amount involved in these initiatives, taxpayers could be on the hook for trillions more.

The watchdog also warned today that hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars could be lost if the government does not increase the transparency of the TARP program, which he says has grown to an unprecedented scope and scale. Requiring TARP recipients to report on how government funds are used is among the recommendations urged by Barofsky. He also wants the department to report on the values of its TARP portfolio so taxpayers know about the value of their investments.

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#1 [url]

27-Jul-09 02:16

We are counting on the banks, auto companies, etc to pay back. The stimulus bill is different though. We are not expecting payback.

Tarp was to be a loan program. A bailout with expectancy of return of loan; and some with interest. Transparency? Not easy. It would be like your bank telling you to tell them how you are spending your home equity loan.

- Jim

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Debrah

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#2 [url]

27-Jul-09 02:38

This is a quote from the same article, farther down on the page:

"I'm not sure how you could come up with a number like [$23.7 trillion] without lots of assumptions involved," said Kevin Petrasic, a private financial services lawyer with broad government experience.

"Throwing out a number you can't provide a tremendous amount of insight about: what's in that? You just get a headline. Why do we even need to know that this number, in a worst case scenario, is the number? What is gained from that?"

In his appearance before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee today, Barofsky insisted his report provides a valuable accounting of taxpayer dollars.

"We take offense to [Treasury's] comments," he said. "These numbers are from the government."

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Jim, maybe the fact that homeowners DO borrow money that is supposed to be used for home improvements, thus home equity, and then they don't use it for home improvements SHOULD be at issue here. The banks are (well, were) lending money so that people's homes would be worth something in the common marketplace no matter what the market is doing, unless the entire bottom were to fall out. Then they find out that the homes they've loaned money on aren't worth 3ยข on the dollar because the money was spent elsewhere. There really IS something wrong with that picture.

Our bank is a local, homeowned jobbie. If we borrow money to do home repairs or improvements, we have to provide estimates from contractors, etc., before the money is lent. There is no running in there and using your home as collateral to borrow money to go gambling in Vegas or some stupid thing. Our bank is accountable, and apparently feels it should be, to it's client base.

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#3 [url]

27-Jul-09 05:33

I know that most people were using their home equity as an ATM machine. That go millions of people in trouble.

I would have had a problem, if I had to report what I was doing with my home equity loan on my CA home. I used it to buy my TX home for cash. Then I sold my CA home and paid off the remaining mortgage and paid off the home equity loan; and still had money left over from the deal. This is why it is good to buy "down" when you are ready to retire. Of course the only way to really do that successfully is to move to another State that has lower home prices.

- Jim

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Debrah

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#4 [url]

27-Jul-09 09:38

Yeah, it got millions of people into billions of dollars worth of trouble. Heh.

Earlier today I was reading an article somewhere (I think online) that had this little tidbit of information in it. I don't know how true this is because I haven't taken the time to check it out yet, but it's a scary concept if it's true:

Using $1,000 bills, one million dollars would be a stack of bills 4 inches high.
Using $1,000 bills, one billion dollars would be a stack of bills 358 feet high.
Using $1,000 bills, one trillion dollars would be a stack of bills 67.9 miles high.

If and when I can verify this, I'll let you know if it's really true or if it's just a big bunch of baloney.

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Shoot for the Moon. Even if you miss, you'll land amongst the stars. - Anonymous

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#5 [url]

28-Jul-09 04:14

Sticker Shock!

I don't like even Reading these kinds of numbers/amounts !!
much less thinking about them.
I get nauseous and depressed at just reading this kind of stuff.

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#6 [url]

28-Jul-09 09:14

Yeah, it got millions of people into billions of dollars worth of trouble. Heh.


What scares me is that all of those people expect you and me to bail them out for their incredibly stupid decisions. It got the banks and mortgage companies into even worse trouble; and we are bailing them out.

Parents have not taught their children to make decisions. They are spoiled. They carry their ineptness into the workforce; and see where we are now. Also education has been a low priority for most families. We have become a service industry; and shipped our better jobs off shore. This can be seen when dealing with a service or product purchase dispute. The service person probably barely finished high school and can't make proper decisions to help you (no common sense either). Or you keep getting the wrong replacement parts; because they just can't understand you. This is going to get more frustrating as time goes on.

- Jim

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Debrah

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#7 [url]

28-Jul-09 10:07

I'm finding out that it's even harder to get folks to understand you when you want to make an ONLINE return. They love to sell you stuff and they know exactly what you're saying. But if you need to return something. all of a sudden they don't speak English or any other understandable language. All of a sudden they're all from Star Trek or something (which I never watched, so I'm not a trekkie or a borg or whatever they're called).

I'm having the worst time right now trying to return a perfume that I purchased online for my daughter's birthday. I started shopping early because it might take me a while to find what she wants. That's why I was asking earlier if anyone knew the name of a perfume that smells like cedar or redwood possibly mixed with juniper or pine scent. I ordered some stuff called Tea and Cedar. When they actually include the word Cedar in the name, I assume it's going to have SOME cedary-type undertones. Wrong. I couldn't have BEEN more wrong. The damn stuff smells like bug spray. It's mostly citronella. The place I ordered it from only offered their description of it's scent, no listing of ingredients. That should have been a red flag for me right away. When I called to tell them I was going to return it, they said they cannot take it back because it's been opened. I asked her how I would know if I liked it or not if I didn't open it? I sprayed one - ONE squirt out of it and now they don't want it back. They asked me if I would want used perfume. OMG. This is perfume, folks. I asked the lady I was talking to if she read all the books BEFORE she buys them? I don't have time to go running around town to sniff out perfume scents. They acted as though I should have known what every perfume in the world smells like before you purchase it. How crazy is that?

Their return policy clearly states that the only thing you cannot return is food items. Well, I wasn't planning to eat this junk and I don't think anyone else eats perfume either, at least not for long!

I contacted Amazon right away and they have written back saying they will refund my money, all but the shipping. I also informed Amazon that this company's policy states clearly that shipping on all items is $7.00 -- they charged me $9.99. We'll see what I actually get back on the deal. The box for this bottle of perfume is probably 2" X 4" ---- the box they shipped it in could have held a microwave oven. I don't understand why these places do that. Do they think we're all so stupid that we can't figure out that that's how they get by with charging exorbitant shipping rates? When the package came to the door, I told the UPS guy that there must be a mistake because I had ordered one small bottle of perfume. He laughed and said "yeah, that's probably what's in this huge box".

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Shoot for the Moon. Even if you miss, you'll land amongst the stars. - Anonymous

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#8 [url]

28-Jul-09 01:27

Last time I bought anything ever from Amazon was when they were only selling books. I had spent a few hundred each year. Enough for them to send me gift, like coffee mugs.

Then I encountered a problem on an unrelated website, where they greeted me by my name. There was a button where I could find out how they knew that. They said that Amazon considered them a business partner and allowed them to look at Amazon servers for my personal info. I immediately changed my credit card number to 123456... and my address to fictitious and my email to info@amazon.com. I never bought from them again.

Then I found out that there was a law suit against them regarding privacy. They only changed how they deal with people under 18.

Just beware.

- Jim

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Debrah

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#9 [url]

28-Jul-09 03:49

I buy LOTS of stuff from Amazon, mostly because they usually have what I want. I never store my credit card or banking information there, or even my email anymore. I never used to think too much about rating products either - I just did it. Well, I don't rate things anymore, ever. Even if you don't post your email address, Amazon does after you submit your remarks or comments about the product you're rating.

A lady I hadn't communicated with in several years FOUND me through Amazon because she recognized my email address on a comment to a rating on some item. I contacted Amazon immediately and told them what happened and that I didn't want it to happen ever again. I also told them never to contact me about rating some product that I've purchased because I'm not participating in that little endeavor any longer.

I had so much trouble with e-bay and that stupid PayPal system they have there; so I simply don't ever buy from them anymore. Amazon and Overstock.com is about all that's left, and Overstock has gotten kinda out of hand on shipping charges. Overstock is direct purchase from the company though, which I like, whereas Amazon is still buying through separate people, mostly.

Other than that, I've never had trouble with Amazon. I purchase lots of stuff for my two daycare facilities through them and I've never once received anything free, never even a discount, never free shipping -- nothing. You lucked out with your free coffee mugs!!!

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Shoot for the Moon. Even if you miss, you'll land amongst the stars. - Anonymous

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Debrah

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#10 [url]

29-Jul-09 10:49

Well, I'm done shopping at Amazon.com

They are refusing to honor the return of the perfume I ordered, and they never even addressed the situation as far as the seller's policy. The only thing not returnable, according to the policy, is food items.

Sooooo, I went to my account there and deleted as much information as possible. I won't shop there again. If they don't make their seller's accountable for following their OWN policies, I have no faith in a company like that. I now own a $50 bottle of perfume that I can't wear because it reeks of citronella (smells like bug spray) and I wouldn't give it to a dog I didn't like.

So, there ya go. I'm stuck.

Never again. At least never again from Amazon... heh heh!

Jim, can you tell me (computer expert that you are) how to go about officially clearing off ALL of my information from Amazon? I wasn't able to delete my email address or my name from the "my account" page as my contact information. Any help appreciated.

We had such a GORGEOUS day here today. High of 64, lows tonight in the 40's, tomorrow high supposed to be around 70. I can deal with this quite nicely! Today, for all the world, felt like a crisp autumn day. Last night we had the A/C on until 4:30 a.m. because it was so humid it was just stifling in the house.

Go figure what a change can take place in six hours. The humidity is still pretty high, and so is the dew point. Sticky, but nice and cool. I'll take it!

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Shoot for the Moon. Even if you miss, you'll land amongst the stars. - Anonymous

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#11 [url]

30-Jul-09 03:03

I stopped long ago. That was before they allowed other sellers to use them; and before they sold anything other than books.

I was only able to change info. That is probably the same today. Just change your address to something fictitious. Then change your email to something fictitious as well. They may require a valid email address; so you could change it to one of those temporary emails that only last a few hours. Check out this site. Might be a good one to save too. This service is the most popular.

http://www.mailinator.com/

- Jim

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Debrah

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#12 [url]

30-Jul-09 07:33

Oh, good idea! There was another temporary email place that I used once before but now I can't remember the name of the place. It worked fine for whatever I needed it for the last time.

The amazon site did allow me to delete my credit card information quite a while ago, but I'm just not sure that my actual email and name information was taken off completely this time around. I'm sure they store such info, so it probably wouldn't do me much good anyway. But I'll never purchase from there again. In the past eight years or so, I've probably spent $25,000 there because I bought a lot of baby furniture and stuff from there, when I opened my infant daycare. I bought ALL the toys and books for the toddler house daycare unit from amazon. I bought a whole bunch of stuff for my granddaughter, too. I was big on buying books, CD's, DVD's --- you name it.

Well, that's come to a screeching halt.

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Shoot for the Moon. Even if you miss, you'll land amongst the stars. - Anonymous

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